For Single Girls

Women and Friendship: Can Men and Women Just be Friends?

Poor guy who’s secretly in love with his female friend. She knows buddy, and she’s not interested:( You sticking around is just giving her what she needs and wants (emotional support, compliments and flattery) while you are not getting what you want (sex and a romantic connection)

So sad!

Check out this video that interviews men and women at a University.

And gentlemen, this is why you don’t accept friendship from a woman you are interested in!

I wrote about it here: What to say when she “just wants to be friends.”

Curious to know from the guys, have you ever been friends with a woman you weren’t interested in?

And ladies, have you ever had a guy friend who you were 100% sure wasn’t interested in you?

Love to hear your thoughts!

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I love thinking about the intricacies of dating, love and life. I share my tiny lessons in the hope that it helps you as you navigate the dating world.

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  1. Chad

    I believe guys and girls can be friends! However, for many ‘typical guys’ everything is based off attraction. Three out of five of my best friends are all women. The first and closest is actually my ex-fiance’s best friend (long story, three years later but no conflict) Attraction…only one of them I find absolutely hot, but it was always one of those situations where she was dating someone, then I was, vice versa – then after a year of this we finally had the chance (I knew in my head her personality is not 100% what I was looking for, too bubbly after getting to know each other well through friendship) and I was not 100% her type … so we just left it as dating may work for six months, maybe two years, but cannot see this long term and let’s not ruin a great friendship. Final best friend, kind of started the same way, was introduced through a friend three years ago, but we both just then got out of a long-term relationship where we both were engaged. We would casually speak seeing each other at church and through facebook, and it was both where one of us was dating someone. About nine months ago we starting hanging out we both said if this is ‘something’ we both want to get to know each other first as that is our common mistake in dating someone so let’s do it right. We became very good friends, she is a tom boy at heart, dresses up for work and when she has to, but weekends or ‘her’ it’s t-shirts, baggy holly pants and skater shoes. Her type is the lead singer from Maroon five (as she has said) tattoos and the badass type. So we just kind of left it both knowing this isn’t going to work as we had already became close friends and do a lot of things together.

    There are also many woman I am ‘friends’ with that I know would die to date me, but I am not interested, so maybe it goes both ways. So to sum, I believe men and women can be friends, if there is no other motive. My three best friends and I are very close, share a lot – but on a relationship level it is a totally different ball game. Guess you have to take it on a case by case scenario.

  2. Chad

    Hmm, few things…. I don’t know if they even have to date each other. Now, if there is a strong physical attraction for the other and as well a great friendship, then I believe the chances of one wanting to further date the other would then be greater.

    Two…In the video of ‘Can guys and girls be friends’ every woman said yes, and every man said no…I find generally women have a stronger standard for starting a dating relationship then a guy. As in one of your posts I read, a man’s thought process is ‘Sex and Success’, very true… Any typical guy will not be friends with an unattractive girl, they are thinking sex. Women on the other hand, they are more likely to keep you around as a friend no matter what your physical attraction is. I find most men are attracted to 5x-10x the amount of opposite sex opposed to a woman’s 1x.

    For my situation, there is also what all of my friends tell me, both guys, girls, and family; I am entirely too picky over women…but I don’t believe in ‘fling dating’ and I am not out to waste my or someone else’s time, if I cannot see something possibly getting serious with someone, I don’t bother. Maybe that’s why I am open to friendships with women, I don’t have the alterior motive and will be friends with a female if I value her personality and character aside from her looks. As for me, I see value in having both male and female friendships. When I am out with my guy friends, it’s usually sports, food, beer, and always talk about the hot women over there, or there and anything cool and fun. When I am with one of my girlfriends, it’s quality food, work, life, movies, family, wine festivals.

    Let me reiterate, completely straight. If I had the chance to hook up with two of my best friends knowing it would not change the friendship or cause any awkwardness, I’d be all for friends with benefits. But I am far from a ‘typical guy’ so obviously all of this would not apply.

    • MidoriLei

      Chad,
      Great points. I do think that women tend to be pickier than men. I do think that men and women can be friends, don’t get me wrong. I just think that men who try to be friends with women who they are actually interested in romantically don’t get themselves any closer to the goal by continuing that friendship just because women are getting their number one need met (emotional support) from the man without the man getting what they want (the romantic connection)

      You’ll see guys who are blown away that their girl friend all of a sudden is interested in another man, crushes on another guy and then he has to hear about it. He’s wondering, “Well why doesn’t she like me? Why does she like this new guy instead when I’ve been here all along?” And to that I say it’s because a woman does not “fall in love” by having her emotional needs met. She “stays in love” by having her emotional needs met. But the initial attraction comes from a man’s assertive pursuit, him making her feel wanted and desired. Giving the emotional support without FIRST making her feel desired, wanted, does not ignite her sexuality. It just makes her feel emotionally satiated. Like settling into a warm blanket when you’re cold as opposed to the reaction the guy really wants: igniting in her a fierce, hot, passion for him.

      I’m not opposed to men and women being friends. I just find that being married, I don’t really desire male friendships. Maybe it’s because I have two brothers who are my best friends and gay guy friends. Maybe it’s because it really makes it uncomplicated for my husband and I. He has no close female friends ( I fill that void 100%) and I have no close male friends (he fills that void 100% – besides my brothers and gay guy friends) Besides the fact that we have committed to never air out our dirty laundry to others and instead confide in each other, I also have that added confidence that when we have problems, he’s not going to another female and he has the confidence that I’m not going to another male.

      I had a friend in high school and college who’s husband’s best friend was a woman. It caused all sorts of problems for their marriage. Every time they had issues, he would go running to his female best friend, who happened to be single, beautiful and (we have concluded) secretly in love with him. Of course by confiding in her, he is not really getting constructive advice. He is getting an accomplice, someone who is just telling him she is wrong and completely taking his side.

      I know this doesn’t happen to all couples, I’m just saying that in my marriage, the fact that my inner circle of friends is all women (oh with the exception of a couple long distance male friends who used to be coworkers and old family friends who I hardly ever talk to) and Nate’s buddies are all men, it is just a comfort to both of us.

      I’m even committed to never spend time alone or outside of work with another man who I am attracted to. Even if it is super innocent. I just try to put myself in my husband’s shoes and I wouldn’t want him doing that with another attractive woman.

      Every decision I make, big or small is directly related to how it will positively or negatively impact my marriage. And having male friends? I just think that there is a greater chance of it negatively impacting my marriage than positively impacting my marriage. There is barely enough time for me to devote to my female friends as it is, so I just don’t even try to make male friends.

      When you get married, how do you think your wife will feel when you hang out with your girl friends— dining, talking about life and work and family, going out to movies, going to wine festivals? Basically, dating them! Or the more telling question, how would you feel if your wife did all those things with other men?

      Or maybe you’re thinking, well all that stuff would only relate to when you get married… but I thought about that when I was a single girl. And I decided I didn’t want to invest in male friendships while I was single because I knew that I wouldn’t have that kind of closeness once one of us got married. I’m assuming it’s not an easy task being a close female friend of a married man, and out of respect for his wife, not something I would want. I did have a close male friendship with a guy at one point when I was single, with him formerly interested in me (I was not interested) and with him doing all the pursuing in the friendship. When he got married, I hardly ever heard from him, and this is a good thing in my opinion.

      That’s why I don’t invest in friendships with the opposite sex. Because it’s an investment that I know will be lost in the end.

  3. Chad

    Midori – very good, thorough, and detailed response.

    Yes. The men and women friendships all depend on expectations.

    Thinking of it, I don’t think I have really used the best terminology to define my friendships.

    My five “best” friends … I say they are my best as in closest. Are any of them truly my “best friend” where you share everything? No.

    On to topic, my three female best friends. The two that are the closest (ex’s best friend and the tomboy) we generally have fun, sometimes discuss emotional things for advice/support, do dinner, drinks, etc. If I were to fall into a serious relationship [or marriage] absolutely would all one on one be eliminated. Going and hanging out with friends apart from my significant other would be strictly with guy friends. I believe even at there is nothing physical, or emotional chemistry, sharing any emotional issues with anyone [female or male] other than your significant other is forbidden and emotionally cheating. Now, I do feel when finding someone my two close friends would become good friends with I am going to say my wife, and we would all hang out together. I would not go have lunch with them one-on-one just as I would not want my wife to, no matter what the circumstances. These two are very close with my family and if she was to pull a power trip that they had to be eliminated 100%, then she is not for me, because these two are more than friends they are really family to me.

    The third female … well, we are good/close friends both with each other and our families and have been for about five years. Really, she does feel as well like family for as long as we have been close and kind of like a sister. I know all of her family from her parents, to grandparents, to her brother and his wife, and usually get invited to any family events. She does have a boyfriend she has been dating for about two years, they may eventually get married … who knows. Since she has been dating him we usually will go out to lunch or dinner every couple weeks, or every now and then I will get invited to come have dinner and drinks with her, her boyfriend, and other friends. She’s the type of friend that when I get married, her and her bf/husband would come over for group cookouts etc, or I would take my wife to her or her families cookouts or dinners. However, this friendship is one that would completely be cut off from anything one-on-one. She is absolutely drop dead gorgeous and I will say I am very attracted to her physical appearance and would never want having lunch or anything to be questionable in my marriage. As now, I completely respect her boyfriend and her and would never do anything with her even if she came onto me. I am not that type of guy. But, I would never risk chancing temptation. This is a friendship that would have to be seriously limited.

    Now I completely agree with you on ALWAYS first considering on any decision making how positively or negatively will something effect your marriage.

    On your note of your consideration of in your single years why investing into a friendship that will be terminated when you get married? I surely see your point. For me personally, I am a very busy person, and very introverted. For my experience with hanging out with guy friends, [I am a firefighter/emt] there’s a lot of talk about that, or about fun things [kayaking, guns, fishing, hunting, snowboarding, etc.] and lot’s and lot’s of talk about sex, and more sex.

    I do think on a near final note when I have a wife, my emotional friendship will be fulfilled, to where I will want to be around my guy friends more and enjoy that time. I will admit my relationship with my two friends again are more like family, but again it is sort of like friend dating and filling the emotional void. For instance, they are both single, not dating anyone, and it’s a little gay for me to call a guy friend and say “Hey, looking to go have sushi then drive around looking at Christmas lights and maybe take a midnight adventure to the parkway on the mountains and pop a bottle of wine and relax.”

    In retrospect, I just thought of this-this way. Say my tomboy friend was less family and more friend. I only look at her as a friend, she meets my wants and needs [emotional void] but truly, she is being my friend because she likes me and wants a relationship with me. I do get it.

    I surely am not an average guy. I will say I am very attractive, successful, mature, and confident. I am much a man, a great leader, great lover, and very respectful to women. I am different that I have tastes in things that women do and guys generally don’t care about; I like to have nice things, dress well, have a decorated house, I like the smell of candles, and enjoy wine.

    I know I have a lot to offer without a doubt and will someday make some woman the happiest on earth. I’m not out to settle. I’m not out to give myself away to anybody.

    I do come across as highly desired by a lot of women. Yet, I am very picky and I know what I want. No, it is not unrealistic. “Anything worth waiting for is worth having…” I have a strong faith in God, though I may not always be able to trace His hand, I can trust His heart.

    There are a lot of women I consider ‘trashy’ or ‘unattractive’ because they throw themselves at me. In the last six months I can count probably a near twenty women I could have taken home. Now another reason why I’m different? Well trust me, I have the sex drive just like if not greater than any other guy. But I find it a disgrace to women because a lot of them think if they come sleep with me then I will want them. (At least that’s what I’m thinking). I have had my share of hook up’s but they’re awkward, meaningless, and as proven the girl usually turns into a stalker or thinks more of the night, or you can get looked at like a perverted ass for trying to take a girl home when I knew from the get go on her inside she is not my type. So, I have been reluctant to have them.

    My biggest pet peeve…signing on Facebook, today __________ is in a relationship with ___________ ……….. two weeks later ___________ is now single. A month later, all over again. I take dating very seriously, and after I have gotten to know someone and I don’t see it long term moving forward, they get kicked to the curb! (Figuratively)

    • MidoriLei

      Chad, we share a lot of the same beliefs about not having one-on-one friendships with people of the opposite sex in the context of a marriage relationship! I am happy to hear this from a guy! Yay!

      My husband used to be a firefighter/emt, and I know from meeting his firefighter/emt friends that there is a great stock of men in that industry:) They are manly but also nice men with hearts of gold!

      I hear your frustration on women who take dating so casually. I don’t understand the on again off again boyfriend thing that many women find themselves in. I think of that verse,

      Proverbs 26:11
      (ESV)

      Like a dog that returns to his vomit
      is a fool who repeats his folly.

      It looks like your female friendships are akin to my relationships with my brothers. I am very close to my brothers, and maybe they are a big part of why I don’t really crave friendships with the opposite sex.

      I am concerned with the one girl though. The one you know has a romantic interest in you. Being her friend, does she know clear and well that you are not interested in her romantically? I would just be concerned that by hanging out with her and being so close that it could be leading her on or giving her false hope. What do you think?

  4. Chad

    Midori – yes I read that article last night. I love his line! 😀

    I read through a lot of your articles, learned a lot. Here’s a topic I’m interested in hearing your thoughts and as well could be a good new blog post for you as I did not see a related topic. “Texting” and/or “The Dating Process”

    “Texting” – A few of my personal thoughts. From my experience, texting can both gain a tremendous amount of interest in you from someone you have a) yet to go out on a date b) or been out once or twice – especially if it is going to be more than a week before you see them again. It can drastically add to the amount of flirtation going on if using banter. My general rule is, never text back immediately. I always wait ten-fifteen minutes before texting a girl back, or at times even longer. Shows I am busy and I refuse to devote all my attention to her at any given time. Shows you have other things going on in your life. It’s playing hard to get, but in a good way.

    In one of your posts you mentioned women love seeing guys vulnerable and straight out there, yet from my findings women love a chase and a challenge just as much. You have to make it a good combination of both. Here’s my catch and release technique. Flirt…play hard to get…be a mystery…then throw some nice in there… “I’m serious, I’m over this rain. If the weather today was as beautiful as you, it would be a perfect, amazing day.” Then you have to go back to the banter. It makes women go crazy. It’s fun seeing the good looking women who are use to having men bowing at their every move and then you give them something to work for, they hate not being able to figure you out!

    The downside to texting is, it can make the other person loose interest if the text and conversations begin to go bland or boring. This usually takes place between dates three and five…things have been very flirty, but you’re starting to get to know one another, you’re interest in their personality and character has grown and it’s not so much flirting anymore. The Good morning beautiful vice versa good morning handsome get’s generic, same with how’s your day? And not so much leaving them wanting more, to see you etc.

    So, some highlight ideas on Daily Texting Conversations…
    – When should you do it? (Has worked great from dates 1-3 for flirting)
    – How and what? (obviously my method as mentioned)
    – OR: No texting. During the first few dates limit majority of conversations to face to face..?
    – Lol’s, and smiley faces? Turn off? Turn on when and only use when appropriate? Explanation points (!) shows a level 10 of excitement and a : ) is a level 5, I try and change it up and use them both.

    I’m partial to texting between dates for the flirting and opposed. Texting again builds interest, keeps the flirting going, and can give many personal topic starters on dates.

    I am thinking of trying out my new theory below for the next female prospect and see how it goes. Some of this is compiled from trial and error of things that I have learned from experiences. Others, a theory. Somewhere I once read follow the 2-3 day rule for dating. Get her number, wait 2-3 days to call her. Call her, schedule something 2-3 days later. Wait 2-3 days, call her and ask “when can I see you again?” and you see the pattern.

    “The Chad” Theory:

    Dates/encounters 1-3: A) Keep them DATES! Don’t invite them after one or two dates to come “hang out” with a bunch of guys and girls at buffalo wild wings to drink and watch a game or whatever. Keep dates 1-3 flirtatious, fun, while gradually getting to know each other. Keep them one-on-one! BUT, take things slow and not go on the next date until at least a week later. Yes, you are anxious to see him/her ASAP, but keep it slow. In the meantime, avoid text conversations, try and keep text and things short and flirty. It may even help not being Facebook friends [don’t go deleting her if you are]

    Dates/encounters 4-5+: Try and keep them dates. Maybe turn it down a little, invite her over to watch a movie. But spend this time trying to really get to know them as and on a personal level. Refrain from them meeting your family, and still, one-on-one.

    [Why I said dates/encounters? Avoid anything in between that’s not a date. If you have been out one time, and the next day she texts you saying how good her stew is she is making, you respond “jealous”, and she offers to bring you some…deny. Keep it at and only dating!]

    Dates/encounters 6+: It should somewhere between one-two months from the first date. Maybe you need one or two more dates. By now you should have a pretty general idea of who this person is and if you want to proceed forward into a relationship. If you are unsure if they have “grown” on you yet, they likely are not your type if you have yet to hit it off.

    What do ya think? lol

    • MidoriLei

      Chad, I will do a blog post on this! Great idea! You will have your questions answered this week:) Thanks for the input and the great idea!

  5. Chad

    Oh, obviously I meant the lol’s and smiley faces for a woman’s perspective when a guy uses them…

  6. Chad

    Um, I think you are talking about this: ?

    [In retrospect, I just thought of this-this way. Say my tomboy friend was less family and more friend. I only look at her as a friend, she meets my wants and needs [emotional void] but truly, she is being my friend because she likes me and wants a relationship with me. I do get it.]

    If so, I was being hypothetical of understanding the video of why women believe they can be friends with the opposite sex as men do not, and their reasoning. In the video, the men have motives other than strictly friendship as the women do not see that perspective.

    Or did I miss something?

  7. MidoriLei

    Chad, so in the video, you’re basically in the position of the women in the video and your tomboy friend is in the position of the guys in the video, right?

    I don’t think that the women in the video should maintain their friendships with these men unless they have already made it clear to the men that they are not interested (if the men have made the effort to get that answer) and the men are fine with the situation. Otherwise, the women are just leading them on!

    So that’s how I feel about your friendship with the tomboy. Does she know you’re not interested? Or do you think by being close to her you are giving her false hope?

  8. Chad

    No, no, no…again, I was being hypothetical of my friendship with my tomboy. We are not interested in each other romantically. I was just using her as a hypothetical example of the reversed relationship in the video*if it were true*, but yes- I would agree with you it *would* be wrong.

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